[arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

Fri Feb 13 15:04:10 PST 2015

What is this, B%@#$% Friday the 13th?

From: arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] On Behalf Of Gary Henikman
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 8:58 AM
To: jim.bennett at sigmadesign.com; Steve Chizzo; ARRIS Listserver
Subject: Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

We are running Arris 9.4 and forever we are having trouble editing hatch patterns. Our problem is trying to select a hatch pattern to edit. When clicking on a hatch pattern, somehow it selects another pattern. With several tries we can finally edit the hatch pattern. I personally prefer to use 9.3 hatch edit command. When cutting holes in a hatch pattern I find it easier to use 9.3. The edit commands are decent in 9.4 when I can get them to work.

Just my 2 cents.

Gary Henikman

Project Manager

Reitan Architects, LLC.

1325 Wiley Road, Suite 166

Schaumburg, Illinois 60173

Ph. (847)-519-1227

Fax (847)-519-0347

From: arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bennett
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 8:50 AM
To: Steve Chizzo; ARRIS Listserver
Subject: Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

Patterns, Zones, Polylines, - what we call the "boundary" entities are more stable in 9.5 than they have ever been in the entire history of ARRIS. We have had fewer problems with Patterns, etc. since 9.5.

ARRIS 9.5 has new tools in it which allow easier placement of Patterns, Zones, and Polylines with less chance of user error. It also contains a new Geometry Edit menus in each entity type which has new tools specifically for adding, moving, and deleting boundary line vertices, adding, deleting, and moving sub-boundaries, and for Patterns, manipulating the display (front/back) and Pattern within the boundary. There is also a Repair Patterns tool in 9.5 for cleaning up Patterns with problems that are brought forward from previous versions.

Jim

On 2/13/2015 7:36 AM, Steve Chizzo wrote:

We are running Arris 9.3 but upgrading to 9.5 and buying another seat.    (because we are adding another person!)

We don’t use viewports, but we use hatch and patterns a lot.  In 9.3 I haven’t had many problems with patterns or door/window shift.  ARE THESE BIG ISSUES IN 9.5???

Manipulating, changing parameters, cutting, stretching, inserting points, editing patterns (whether RI’s or lines) is NOT a problem now in 9.3.  I really want to know if that is problematic in 9.5…….

Thanks.

Steve D. Chizzo, Architect

LEED AP

Ellis Stone Construction

ph:  715-345-5000

fx:   715-345-5007

 <blocked::http://www.ellisstone.com/> www.ellisstone.com

From: arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] On Behalf Of John Ray
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:36 AM
To: arriscad at lists.arriscad.com
Subject: Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

Welcome to the fifth level of Arris hell; patterns.

Patterns are easily corrupted and will corrupt the database after they are placed.  I usually have to pack, recreate the display list and/or repair the pattern(s) (sometimes multiple times) before I can continue working on the database.  This does not stop the patterns from disappearing, moving, or offsetting randomly going forward.

The best thing I have found is to use patterns sparingly, as a last option, only in simple outlines, and as the last thing I put on the drawings before printing.  Never edit them – sometimes it’s okay, as in once, but never twice or more. It better to erase the pattern and redraw it.  I’ve erased entire sheets of patterns to edit the drawings and then redrawn the all patterns before replotting to save time and grief.  I’ll also freeze them as lines, if possible, after I place them to eliminate associated problems when I can.

I think one of the worst things you can do is to a copy a pattern, and the very worst is to a copy a pattern over an axis (i.e. x|x, y|y, etc…).  I also don’t recommend moving or copying patterns between layers or databases – they, and the databases, don’t seem to behave very well afterwards.

If the pattern is made with an R.I. and rotated, forget it – you’ll forever be fixing it.  I don’t usually include patterns in R.I.s, because the biggest problem I have with that is not having the pattern library loaded or available in other database when I use the associated R.I. (or vis-a-versa) – Arris still can’t keep them together – it tries, but not very well.  If I do put I pattern in an R.I. I’ll freeze it before I make the R.I.

Sometimes you can move the pattern origin (e.g. to line up adjacent patterns or a specific origin point) but this often produces random results – good luck.

Don’t try and change a pattern type (i.e. line to R.I.)  or parameters (e.g. scale, color etc..),  just erase it and start over with correct type and parameters.

Additionally, the default for selecting a pattern under “Geometry Edit” is “Boundary Line”, but it is very hard to select a pattern by the boundary line if the pattern layer is a lower number (as it should be for plotting – even if “Display Order” is “Back”) than other entities. But setting it to “Point In Pattern” for easier selection means that more than 90% of the pattern needs to be within the active window for the pattern to be selected.

As for all the other geometry edits on the pattern “Geometry Edits” menu, I say use at your own risk – best recommended practice is draw once, don’t edit, erase if you need to revise, redraw with your revised boundary.

If the pattern changes color for some reason (usually to color 1), forget it, it cannot be salvaged – erase it, redraw it, and move on.

One more thing, save, save, save, after every pattern you place and make sure your undo is set correctly (it will reset to zero randomly as it does with undo after copying).  Actually, I recommend you save as a new database (or as a copy) every once in while just in case. There will be a point where the patterns will completely corrupt the database and you’ll be scrambling (any praying) to recover your work – been there, done that, not fun.

Patterns in viewports are the devil’s playground – use at your own risk. (Use what at your risk you ask? viewports or patterns? take your pick.)

Sadly one of the greater strengths of Arris is now one of its greatest weaknesses (again, viewports or patterns? take your pick).

The plotting problem probably stem from which PDF engine you are using.  Whether it is from Arris or some other PDF printing engine – they are not all the same and they will produce different results.  Many are engines free and I suggest trying several to achieve your intended results (although Arris’s seems to work fine for me).  I did have problems with shifting patterns in some earlier versions, but (the current) spin 523 seems to have cured that issue.  Previously I did have to open PDF drawings in Adobe Professional and fix the patterns before I sent them to the printer. I don’t know if Arris updated their engine over time, but you might want to update to the latest version of Arris for plotting (won’t solve your pattern issues though).

As for the doors offsetting – it seems to be a result of updating walls in older databases.  Jeff’s solution is the best one I have found so far – and yes it is a pain. Windows will wig out also, but not as much of an issue as the doors.

You’ll notice if you query a door that’s been placed with a flush offset (and select ‘make current’) the offset becomes “flush” -3 ½” (or -5 ½” – or whatever the wall thickness is) and that is what the door is offset from the wall.  What’s happening with the doors when the walls are updated is that they are offsetting incorrectly according to the door parameters – confusing, yes.

And finally off topic, if you ever segment a line and then go to the R.I. menu you will always find that the R.I. scale changes to “4”,  or “8”… (depending on the database scale) and rotation changes to “90” or “-90” regardless of prior R.I. settings – big deal? No. Annoying? Yes – (third level of Arris hell).

Please let me know if you or anyone has experienced the fourth level of Arris hell; ellipses.

Aaah, I feel better now.

JohnRay

JMR Architecture

johnray at jmr-architecture.com

(916) 337-3375

From: arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] On Behalf Of T. Jeffery Clarke
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 07:10
To: Phil Lederach; arriscad at lists.arriscad.com
Subject: Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

Door frames offsetting on their own has been a problem for a long time.  I usually (a) match door parameters (b) mark the center location with a short line and (c) replace the door.  It's a huge PITA.  

Jeff 

  _____  

T. Jeffery Clarke AIA NCARB LEED Green Associate  

T. Jeffery Clarke Architect LLC
116 Commons Way
Princeton NJ   08540

(609) 252-1164

email -  <mailto:tjefferyclarke at comcast.net> tjefferyclarke at comcast.net

website -   <http://www.jeffclarkearchitect.com/> www.jeffclarkearchitect.com

Please visit us on Houzz - http://www.houzz.com/pro/tjeffc/t-jeffery-clarke-architect-llc

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Phil Lederach <mailto:phil at lederach.com>  

To: arriscad at lists.arriscad.com 

Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 10:17 PM

Subject: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

I have a project where I’m having difficulty with several things.  I’m not sure if they are related or not:

1)    When I Regenerate Display Lists the plans get offsetting images – i.e. the door frames come up separately as an offset image from the plan; also I’ve had plans come up separately from other sections of the plan, or patterns come up separately from the plan.

2)    I seem to constantly have problems with patterns, and my problems seem to increase after I begin placing patterns.  In my most recent case - things seemed to be just fine until I start adding patterns to the building elevations.  It seems I constantly start having crashes, and/or problems with pattern recognition, or aligning once I place them, or try to cut them for a window or door, etc.  There are times where the patterns change direction, or disappear entirely.  In some cases patterns appear where none were ever placed.

3)    I also have problems with plotting PDF files, especially sheets that have patterns on.  The sheets appear to plot into PDF format fine – everything looks to be just fine – pens, patterns, text appear to be great.  But when I send them to my printer/plotter, it tells me there’s a problem with the page.  Again, everything appears (looks) to be fine the way I intended the sheet to look but there seems to be something else going on that’s not readily apparent in the PDF image.  In one instance after a great deal of fuss, I got rid of the patterns, because they never seemed right every time I’d go back into the viewport, so, I redid them, and then replotted the PDF, and it then ran a hard copy print without any problems – the hard copy looked just like the PDF image.  I thought a PDF copy was an image of the ARRIS file, and I don’t quite see how anything associated with the pattern, and/or anything else would carry into the PDF copy.

I’m running ARRIS 9.5.  All the patterns in my projects use only those that came with the ARRIS software.

You help will be greatly appreciated.  I’ve redrawn the one floor plan twice now, and I’m hoping to avoid redrawing it again.

Philip C. Lederach, RA, AIA, NCARB, LEED.AP, MArch

LEDERACH ARCHITECTURE, LLC

telephone:   215.256.8272  x  105

www.lederach.com

  _____  

_______________________________________________
arriscad mailing list
arriscad at lists.arriscad.com
http://lists.arriscad.com/mailman/listinfo/arriscad

_______________________________________________
arriscad mailing list
arriscad at lists.arriscad.com
http://lists.arriscad.com/mailman/listinfo/arriscad

-- 
Jim Bennett, AIA
Sigma Design
Brittain & White Architects & Contractors
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.arriscad.com/pipermail/arriscad/attachments/20150213/5046b825/attachment-0001.html>