[arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns

Fri Feb 13 06:49:45 PST 2015

Patterns, Zones, Polylines, - what we call the "boundary" entities are 
more stable in 9.5 than they have ever been in the entire history of 
ARRIS. We have had fewer problems with Patterns, etc. since 9.5.

ARRIS 9.5 has new tools in it which allow easier placement of Patterns, 
Zones, and Polylines with less chance of user error. It also contains a 
new Geometry Edit menus in each entity type which has new tools 
specifically for adding, moving, and deleting boundary line vertices, 
adding, deleting, and moving sub-boundaries, and for Patterns, 
manipulating the display (front/back) and Pattern within the boundary. 
There is also a Repair Patterns tool in 9.5 for cleaning up Patterns 
with problems that are brought forward from previous versions.

Jim

On 2/13/2015 7:36 AM, Steve Chizzo wrote:
>
> We are running Arris 9.3 but upgrading to 9.5 and buying another seat. 
>    (because we are adding another person!)
>
> We don’t use viewports, but we use hatch and patterns a lot. In 9.3 I 
> haven’t had many problems with patterns or door/window shift.  ARE 
> THESE BIG ISSUES IN 9.5???
>
> Manipulating, changing parameters, cutting, stretching, inserting 
> points, editing patterns (whether RI’s or lines) is NOT a problem now 
> in 9.3.  I really want to know if that is problematic in 9.5…….
>
> Thanks.
>
> */Steve D. Chizzo, Architect/*
>
> */LEED AP/**//*
>
> //
>
> *Ellis Stone Construction*
>
> *ph: 715-345-5000*
>
> *fx: 715-345-5007*
>
> *www.ellisstone.com <blocked::http://www.ellisstone.com/>***
>
> *From:* arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *John Ray
> *Sent:* Friday, February 13, 2015 2:36 AM
> *To:* arriscad at lists.arriscad.com
> *Subject:* Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns
>
> Welcome to the fifth level of Arris hell; patterns.
>
> Patterns are easily corrupted and will corrupt the database after they 
> are placed.  I usually have to pack, recreate the display list and/or 
> repair the pattern(s) (sometimes multiple times) before I can continue 
> working on the database.  This does not stop the patterns from 
> disappearing, moving, or offsetting randomly going forward.
>
> The best thing I have found is to use patterns sparingly, as a last 
> option, only in simple outlines, and as the last thing I put on the 
> drawings before printing.  Never edit them – sometimes it’s okay, as 
> in once, but never twice or more. It better to erase the pattern and 
> redraw it.  I’ve erased entire sheets of patterns to edit the drawings 
> and then redrawn the all patterns before replotting to save time and 
> grief.  I’ll also freeze them as lines, if possible, after I place 
> them to eliminate associated problems when I can.
>
> I think one of the worst things you can do is to a copy a pattern, and 
> the very worst is to a copy a pattern over an axis (i.e. x|x, y|y, 
> etc…). I also don’t recommend moving or copying patterns between 
> layers or databases – they, and the databases, don’t seem to behave 
> very well afterwards.
>
> If the pattern is made with an R.I. and rotated, forget it – you’ll 
> forever be fixing it.  I don’t usually include patterns in R.I.s, 
> because the biggest problem I have with that is not having the pattern 
> library loaded or available in other database when I use the 
> associated R.I. (or vis-a-versa) – Arris still can’t keep them 
> together – it tries, but not very well.  If I do put I pattern in an 
> R.I. I’ll freeze it before I make the R.I.
>
> Sometimes you can move the pattern origin (e.g. to line up adjacent 
> patterns or a specific origin point) but this often produces random 
> results – good luck.
>
> Don’t try and change a pattern type (i.e. line to R.I.)  or parameters 
> (e.g. scale, color etc..),  just erase it and start over with correct 
> type and parameters.
>
> Additionally, the default for selecting a pattern under “Geometry 
> Edit” is “Boundary Line”, but it is very hard to select a pattern by 
> the boundary line if the pattern layer is a lower number (as it should 
> be for plotting – even if “Display Order” is “Back”) than other 
> entities. But setting it to “Point In Pattern” for easier selection 
> means that more than 90% of the pattern needs to be within the active 
> window for the pattern to be selected.
>
> As for all the other geometry edits on the pattern “Geometry Edits” 
> menu, I say use at your own risk – best recommended practice is draw 
> once, don’t edit, erase if you need to revise, redraw with your 
> revised boundary.
>
> If the pattern changes color for some reason (usually to color 1), 
> forget it, it cannot be salvaged – erase it, redraw it, and move on.
>
> One more thing, save, save, save, after every pattern you place and 
> make sure your undo is set correctly (it will reset to zero randomly 
> as it does with undo after copying).  Actually, I recommend you save 
> as a new database (or as a copy) every once in while just in case. 
> There will be a point where the patterns will completely corrupt the 
> database and you’ll be scrambling (any praying) to recover your work – 
> been there, done that, not fun.
>
> Patterns in viewports are the devil’s playground – use at your own 
> risk. (Use what at your risk you ask? viewports or patterns? take your 
> pick.)
>
> Sadly one of the greater strengths of Arris is now one of its greatest 
> weaknesses (again, viewports or patterns? take your pick).
>
> The plotting problem probably stem from which PDF engine you are 
> using.  Whether it is from Arris or some other PDF printing engine – 
> they are not all the same and they will produce different results.  
> Many are engines free and I suggest trying several to achieve your 
> intended results (although Arris’s seems to work fine for me).  I did 
> have problems with shifting patterns in some earlier versions, but 
> (the current) spin 523 seems to have cured that issue.  Previously I 
> did have to open PDF drawings in Adobe Professional and fix the 
> patterns before I sent them to the printer. I don’t know if Arris 
> updated their engine over time, but you might want to update to the 
> latest version of Arris for plotting (won’t solve your pattern issues 
> though).
>
> As for the doors offsetting – it seems to be a result of updating 
> walls in older databases.  Jeff’s solution is the best one I have 
> found so far – and yes it is a pain. Windows will wig out also, but 
> not as much of an issue as the doors.
>
> You’ll notice if you query a door that’s been placed with a flush 
> offset (and select ‘make current’) the offset becomes “flush” -3 ½” 
> (or -5 ½” – or whatever the wall thickness is) and that is what the 
> door is offset from the wall.  What’s happening with the doors when 
> the walls are updated is that they are offsetting incorrectly 
> according to the door parameters – confusing, yes.
>
> And finally off topic, if you ever segment a line and then go to the 
> R.I. menu you will always find that the R.I. scale changes to “4”,  or 
> “8”… (depending on the database scale) and rotation changes to “90” or 
> “-90” regardless of prior R.I. settings – big deal? No. Annoying? Yes 
> – (third level of Arris hell).
>
> Please let me know if you or anyone has experienced the fourth level 
> of Arris hell; ellipses.
>
> Aaah, I feel better now.
>
> JohnRay
>
> *JMR Architecture*
>
> johnray at jmr-architecture.com <mailto:johnray at jmr-architecture.com>
>
> (916) 337-3375
>
> *From:* arriscad [mailto:arriscad-bounces at lists.arriscad.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *T. Jeffery Clarke
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 12, 2015 07:10
> *To:* Phil Lederach; arriscad at lists.arriscad.com 
> <mailto:arriscad at lists.arriscad.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns
>
> Door frames offsetting on their own has been a problem for a long 
> time.  I usually (a) match door parameters (b) mark the center 
> location with a short line and (c) replace the door.  It's a huge PITA.
>
> Jeff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> T. Jeffery Clarke AIA NCARB LEED Green Associate
>
> T. Jeffery Clarke Architect LLC
> 116 Commons Way
> Princeton NJ   08540
>
> (609) 252-1164
>
> email - tjefferyclarke at comcast.net <mailto:tjefferyclarke at comcast.net>
>
> website - www.jeffclarkearchitect.com 
> <http://www.jeffclarkearchitect.com/>
>
> Please visit us on Houzz - 
> http://www.houzz.com/pro/tjeffc/t-jeffery-clarke-architect-llc
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     *From:*Phil Lederach <mailto:phil at lederach.com>
>
>     *To:*arriscad at lists.arriscad.com <mailto:arriscad at lists.arriscad.com>
>
>     *Sent:*Wednesday, February 11, 2015 10:17 PM
>
>     *Subject:*[arriscad] Offset Images and Problems with Patterns
>
>     I have a project where I’m having difficulty with several things.
>     I’m not sure if they are related or not:
>
>     1)When I Regenerate Display Lists the plans get offsetting images
>     – i.e. the door frames come up separately as an offset image from
>     the plan; also I’ve had plans come up separately from other
>     sections of the plan, or patterns come up separately from the plan.
>
>     2)I seem to constantly have problems with patterns, and my
>     problems seem to increase after I begin placing patterns.  In my
>     most recent case - things seemed to be just fine until I start
>     adding patterns to the building elevations.  It seems I constantly
>     start having crashes, and/or problems with pattern recognition, or
>     aligning once I place them, or try to cut them for a window or
>     door, etc.  There are times where the patterns change direction,
>     or disappear entirely.  In some cases patterns appear where none
>     were ever placed.
>
>     3)I also have problems with plotting PDF files, especially sheets
>     that have patterns on.  The sheets appear to plot into PDF format
>     fine – everything looks to be just fine – pens, patterns, text
>     appear to be great.  But when I send them to my printer/plotter,
>     it tells me there’s a problem with the page.  Again, everything
>     appears (looks) to be fine the way I intended the sheet to look
>     but there seems to be something else going on that’s not readily
>     apparent in the PDF image.  In one instance after a great deal of
>     fuss, I got rid of the patterns, because they never seemed right
>     every time I’d go back into the viewport, so, I redid them, and
>     then replotted the PDF, and it then ran a hard copy print without
>     any problems – the hard copy looked just like the PDF image.  I
>     thought a PDF copy was an image of the ARRIS file, and I don’t
>     quite see how anything associated with the pattern, and/or
>     anything else would carry into the PDF copy.
>
>     I’m running ARRIS 9.5.  All the patterns in my projects use only
>     those that came with the ARRIS software.
>
>     You help will be greatly appreciated.  I’ve redrawn the one floor
>     plan twice now, and I’m hoping to avoid redrawing it again.
>
>     *Philip C. Lederach,*RA, AIA, NCARB, LEED.AP, MArch
>
>     *LEDERACH ARCHITECTURE, LLC*
>
>     telephone: 215.256.8272  x  105
>
>     www.lederach.com <http://www.lederach.com>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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-- 
Jim Bennett, AIA
Sigma Design
Brittain & White Architects & Contractors

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